Friday Links and Open Thread

  • Thursday’s numbers: Bill O’Reilly-Megyn Kelly-Chris Wallace 1-2-3.
  • Video: The who spotted Roof, trailed his car, tipped police.
  • Somerby: The Rachel Maddow gong show turns to Donald Trump.
  • Factor video: on media opportunists assigning blame.
  • CNN signs Bill Carter as on-air contributor, promotes Sunlen Serfaty.
  • TCG: Forget it, Jake…it’s Zuckertown.  Arthur Aidala inducted, engaged.
  • Video: What can Brian Williams … and vice versa?
  • Greta to Brian Williams: Welcome to cable news.  Joyella: You lost me.
  • Video: Brian Williams starts the apology tour.  Reactions largely skeptical.
  • Wemple: So what exactly will Brian Williams be doing all day at MSNBC?
  • Zurawik: Williams gets a second chance, and truth strikes out at (MS)NBC.

118 thoughts on “Friday Links and Open Thread”

  1. I assume this is the offensive language:

    ” …he [the pepetrator] watches things like Fox News, where they talk about things that they call news, but they’re really not. They use that coded language, they
    use hate speech, they talk about the president as if he’s not the
    president. They talk about churchgoers as if they’re not really
    churchgoers. And that’s what this young man acted on. That’s why you can walk into a church and treat people like animals when they’re really human beings.”

    If so, Rutherford did not say that Roof watched FOX News. He speculated that he watches things like FOX News, did he? To be sure I don’t want to rely on the Angry Old Man Caucus methodology. But, if this were more clearly the conditional. if the passage were to begin, “If Roof watches things like FOX News ….,” would there then be this outrage? Surely, it would be fair and not without some basis in fact for the manner is which our President is discussed, beginning from the very moment it became clear he was going to defeat McCain following a disastrous vice-presidential pick and the stumbling over the Bush/Cheney economic morass and continuing through the present. If these persistent whines have been fact-based, they have seldom been expressed as fact-based. I mention that because it makes the statement very difficult to affirm or deny. If news has become a non-fact based expression of ideology and partisanship, as it clearly has at FOX and MSNBC, then everything is mere opinion, and the opinion of Rutherford is as valuable and unassailable as the opinion of anyone else.

    And although, I am largely unimpressed with Tapper and have never been impressed with him, where do we come off criticizing him for not following-up? Was there any follow-up the Interview of the Decade of the Duggars by Megyn Kelly? No, there wasn’t. Follow-up is a lost journalistic art, perhaps because it requires an agility at odds with our highly scripted news world.

    • Oh good… another rant.

      No wait, it’s a screed.

      Whatever, it’s a bunch of nonsensical babble.

      In anyway suggesting that FOX News uses racist language, coded or otherwise, and language like influenced Roof, is foolish and wrong. If discussing the President in language other than glowing is offensive, I’d ask where people were between 2000 and 2008.

      It’s just a shame that some Liberals see fit to dance on the graves of innocents, simply to feed their unhealthy obsession of attacking FOX News, their perpetual boogeyman.

      A sad story made somehow more depressing by their apparent lack of respect for people who don’t always agree with them.

      • So, the Angry Old Man Caucus has broken up for the day. What was served for breakfast?

        Perhaps you missed that it was Doocy and his two head-nodding colleagues and guest who first sought to exploit the innocents to advance their War on Christians meme?

        • Except that’s a lie.

          They discussed whether there was a possibility this was a religious-based attack.

          Please stop lying.

          • Was that discussion before or after the shooter was identified and/or captured? Because it would seem dishonest to attack someone for discussing possibilities and saying ‘we don’t know’ when, in fact, nobody at that time did know.

          • AFAIK, this was the timeline (all times Eastern).

            • Nine people were fatally shot just after 9 P.M. on Wednesday.

            • At a press conference on the same night (shortly after midnight) City of Charleston Police Chief Gregory Mullen said “I do believe this was a hate crime.”

            • Then Thursday morning after 6 A.M. (when F&F airs) Steve Doocy made his comments.

            I suppose one could argue that F&F either didn’t have a report about the Police Chief’s comments, or concluded they weren’t definitive.

          • Fair question.

            Yes it would.

            Which then leaves the two sides to debate whether that is what the Chief intended to suggest.

          • I don’t think it was what the Chief intended to suggest, but it couldn’t be ruled out by calling it a racial hate crime either.

            I think Doocey was speculating, but he wasn’t pulling it out of his butt. It did happen in a church during prayer meeting.

            That’s not the same as speculation that was issued by the SC lawmaker.

          • Yes it would. And before all the facts are known, it is hardly an unreasonable possibility, given that every last victim was in the midst of Bible study at the time they were murdered. It’s since come to light that it was a different variety of hate crime (racial) but it still may have had religious motivations too. Time will tell. In any case none of this is a knock on people who waited for facts before drawing conclusions.

          • To get back to what’s important, Johnny, being from the south, I know that every person in that prayer meeting warmly welcomed Roof.

            They shook his hand, patted him on the back. The women fussed over him a bit.

            It just defies all humanity that he could do this.

          • Quite poignant and quite true. The same would be true in Texas (not redundant since our Southerness is not particularly pure). If you or JD wanted to make the argument yesterday we can’t conclude this to be racism because we may just be dealing with a completely deranged human being, I’d concede that you might well have had a point. I assume at this point, we’d all agree this utterly smacks of racism. I would even concede that there are those who are too willing to cheapen the lost lives by honing in on the racism at the expense of the inhumanity. Sharpton. And, there are those who are willing to cheapen the lives by too readily making an institution the victim. Doocy. Sharpton gets no pass because he works at MSNBC and Doocy ought not get a pass because he works at FOX. Likely we can agree with that too. We can’t however all agree that Doocy’s position was reasonable. We can attribute that to a desire to shift the discussion from racism because it is an albatross for conservatives and Republicans (and perhaps unfairly so) or we can blame it on a certain simple-mindedness. We can’t, however, simply dismiss the absurdity of it all.

          • I never said it was out of place to conclude it racism. I said that the prayer meeting aspect brings a less obvious but relevant avenue for speculation too, that the SC lawmaker’s was not (despite your illogical argument that they are alike).

          • So several months after Pearl Harbor, I see trucks barreling through the Utah desert filled with well-dressed Japanese families. I say they’re rounding upon Japanese-Americans because of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Doocy says they’re suppressing Shinto worship in Utah. both are equally valuable insights? Sorry, but you wouldn’t agree with that, JD. You may be a little too eager to defend a weatherman simply because of who his employer is.

          • No one said that they are equally valuable insights. We’re arguing that they are not the same thing that the SC lawmaker did.

            You’re moving the goalpost.

          • Well evidence-wise, the opinion of a police chief who does not know many of the facts (like the most essential one: whodunit) that something is a hate crime is hardly definitive. It’s indicative, but opinion, and we’ve seen time and time again how getting out ahead of the facts can be a dangerous thing journalistically. There may have been a lean to see things in a certain way, but they were careful to qualify remarks as analysis/speculation and note that they didn’t know because the facts weren’t in. They let the guests and experts put forth the various theories and they were pretty much all represented over three hours of discussion. I refuse to attack them for waiting for confirmed data and information before reading the mind of a killer whose identity wasn’t even known.

          • Indeed. When a Southern White man targets a historically significant African American church and ruthlessly pulls a gun a slaughters nine (9) people, all of whom were African-American, it would be foolish to think racism might be involved. Utterly ridiculous.

          • You got to bed, and there is no snow on the ground. You wake up, and there is snow on the ground. It snowed during the night.

            You get in a rental car. You. Turn the radio on and there are no commercials. It’s a public radio station.

          • Yes, so deeming the shooting to be about race is not idle speculation because of externals.

            While wondering if it was about religious animus is not as obvious as race, is not off the ranch speculation.

          • He long ago stopped knowing the difference between a lie and the truth. Or stopped caring.

        • The event did happen in a church, you know. That’s not out of the ball park speculation.

          No one here has guarreled with anyone immediately perceiving that this shooting had to do with race.

          What we have reacted to is the sort of conflation of criticism of the president as being the fertilizer for this act. You know… What you just did in your screed above….

          That’s political hay-making. And it was opportunistically done by a Democratic politician against people who don’t share his politics.

      • Liberals mine all tragedy for gems to facilitate there causes. Little blood on them all the better. Now you give them to a troll or MSNBC host, tragedy is replaced with celebration of the find.

          • I wasn’t aware that Bundy killed anybody. Mabye in your alternate reality he did.

          • The tragedy in question was the seizure of his land. It was a tragedy to him. Not all tragedies are deaths. I once had a beautiful crab soufflé fall. That was a terrible tragedy.

          • No, tragedy happened at the Bundy Ranch. Just the sort of outrage that the family was accosted by paramilitary type operation, as there was outrage over the same paramilitary response in Ferguson against people who had looted and burnt buildings to the ground.

    • “Follow-up is a lost journalistic art, perhaps because it requires an agility at odds with our highly scripted news world.”

      Hard to disagree.

      Which is why — unlike Jake Tapper and Chuck Todd — it is Chris Wallace who stands alone as the closest we have to a current day version of Tim Russert.

    • What do you watch on tv, Cecelia? Oh, things like Fox News. That a southern colloquial way of expression that you are familiar with.

      The rest of this screed is illogical gobbledygook that wouldn’t make any sense if you talking about something as subjective as an editorial page or literary criticism.

      • Mabye he’d make sense if he’d take his freaking meds. The boy is a few bubbles out of plumb.

  2. none of the Williams analysis is dealing with anything except chismeses, gossip. which way is the wind blowing? look, Williams has an expensive contract, used or unused. NBC has a variety of problems. many on MSNBC, the guys running NBC are not stupid. they know the problems better than anyone. the problem is choosing options which they are all deathly afraid of. do what they already know is what dictates thinking. doing what is not being done is the most likely solution. i have sat in corporate meetings for an entire professional lifetime. i don’t care if it is auto dealers, ad agencies or television nets. the nexus always returns to the intersection of the facts on the ground. being innovative but not stupid is really tough. that is why they get paid the big bucks. they are gonna run down a check list. he can not be on air longer than seconds, VOT minutes. he cannot run any of the formats we or other nets currently use as he will under perform that which exists. the hair brained schemes he has submitted are …. well hair brained due to ego. so it is a tough nut. he is not good enough to do interviews, al la wallace. he is not good enough to be counted on for on air interaction. he is a news reader for pete’s sake. he is not even personable and knowledgeable enough to have the Andrea Mitchell resources. solve problems, don’t create new ones. i would be thinking putting him on an every country mule train letting him go country to country for 10 minute daily vignettes, maybe 2 a day and inserting them into existing MSNBC programing. roving brian. out of our hair. no where near domestic politics where so many are better than him. people want to see new places. it invites sampling. hard to think more people would hit the remote because of a village in Uruguay than Rachel Maddow. the one thing not going on in the center of the decision discussion is a bunch of jr high gossip which are what the articles about Williams seem to be. apology tour. who the Hades writes that junk.

    • I think they were trying to kill 2 birds with one stone, 1 ) they couldn’t get rid of him unless they had to pay a lot of $$$$$ so wade out the contract , 2 ) MSNBC is a mess it leaned forward too much and fell over , since Brian Williams wasn’t considered honest enough on a broadcast they care more about , because ABC would have a field day if BW came back to NN , but they figured there are some who still like Williams and maybe they will follow him to a channel that needs some eyeballs. Will it work that’s the unknown.

      • that gets you from point a to a.5. now what does he do? that is point b. even on msnbc if they give him the wrong thing it reflects on NBC, not williams. that was what the analysis written does not venture into and i know that is where the hangup is because i know how those meetings go. it is both good and bad that there are very few options. bad because they are between a rock and hard spot. good because maybe they have a better chance of making the right guess.

      • in addition wading out of a contract is always last result because it is an admission of failure.

        • He gave then enough reason to terminate him for cause. His lies brought ridicule on the entire network. Wait….What am I thinking? These are the same morons who hired Al Freaking Sharpton.

          • past. execs are worried about future. cutting him lose is no help. the cows left the barn. now what?

    • NBC seems to leak gossip from upper management (as a weapon) like no other major corporation I’ve ever seen. Would be great to see just one of them end up like “THE FOX MOLE” with his butt out on the sidewalk.

          • no, Cooperations are worse, they are communes.

            Fox is a business corporation period. all S*** flows downhill. on the bus or off the bus.

          • It’s like that in the civilian business world and the military. It’s the nature of the beasts. Probably been that way since civilization began.

          • Communes are generally run by space cadets. Zonked out of their skulls either on drugs, or the scribbling of Chairman Meow in his little red book.

          • they are not practical. group decisions are always sub par. rand pretty well dealt with group think.

          • Usually I just let it go but for sake of novelty let me reply: I have no idea in hell what you just said.

          • fair enough. you said. “Cooperations aren’t democracies.”
            did you mean corporations or co-ops?
            i assumed the later as in cooperation.

            in business co-ops are not growth endeavors.

            then i described a couple of basic insider idioms.
            of business;
            poop rolls down hill. i.e. all problems and solutions flow from the top.

            you are on the bus or off the bus. i.e. people not on board with what flows from the top are eliminated.

            sorry to be obscure.

        • No, it is not. It is totalitarian, and it was decreed last week that it would send up trial balloons on what would be the effect of neutering Ailes. At least three deliberated launches. Ailes didn’t seem to fare all that well.

  3. Guy who shot at George Zimmerman has been charged with attempted murder. Fixated on “justice for Trayvon” he had been harassing white-guy looking Zimmerman for a long time. If his lawyer, I would recommend a MSNBC-made-me do-it defense.

    • Do you think we can find some hack politician who can go on CNN and say this guy watched MSNBC all day and that made him go out to kill Zimmerman? Maybe Jake Tapper could interview him.

      • If it works at FOX it should work at MSNBC. They’re like Dallas and Fort Worth. Superficial differences but essentially the same. And, there are certainly as many Republican hacks and Democratic hacks, if not more.

      • I listened to the interview done on F&F this morning of the woman who caught Roof. She saw him, followed him, and told the police exactly where to find him.

        She was in tears over the deaths of these people, over the horror of this action, over her own fear at following him. She kept on because she felt the Lord prompting her.

        She expressly said she saw a picture of the shooter and his car while watching Fox.

        That’s the audience that’s being denigrated so cynically now in some corners.

        • I have nothing but admiration and respect for her, and I have no doubt she felt called to do this.

          • She’s the audience you mock on a daily basis and declared today as a segment of the pop. seeking criticism of Pres. Obama likely due to racial animus. This for no other reason than she might not hold your political views.

          • You stir that pot everyday with a vengeance. In fact it’s why you’re here.

            Don’t tell me now that it stinks.

          • He is here to annoy. Good God, I am starting to miss Joe and Laura. They’d blow their stacks and get booted for a while. This guy is like a cockroach infestation.

  4. If I were MSNBC, I would actually put Brian Williams in the car-chase helicopter. Top that, Shep.

  5. I listened this morning as one of the hosts of CBS THIS MORNING (hint, Opra’s friend) asked the governor of South Carolina if now “wasn’t the right time to have a conversation about race?”. I have no idea in hell what that means anymore other than it must be code for something? It’s not like talking about race isn’t happening and hasn’t been happening. Check out today’s MEDIAITE comment section or even the WaPO comment section to see the nasty side of conversation.

    • Well, Larry your obsessed with code, and I don’t think that this could have been anymore straightforward. A bunch of White Republican men imposed the Stars & Bars, the ultimate hate symbol in America, on the citizens of South Carolina, and a decent but intimidated governor who knew better, signed it into law. That, plus the horrible murders targeted at African Americans pretty clearly indicates the need for this conversation and that the place to have it is South Carolina. Maybe, Doocy can moderate.

      • I’d start by not dividing folks and intimating that they are the philosophical brethern of a killer.

        That is not a pov you are able to respect or see utility therein. Ever.

        I would suggest that you are Exhibit A of who should not be asked this question.

  6. So a F&F viewer was key in the apprehension of the racist murderer. Hope Jake Tapper and Media Matters, and Rev. Al., and tawdry trolls point that out.

    • They played the interview on MSNBC this a.m., but edited out the fact she is a Fox News watcher and saw paths pic of Roof and his car on F&F.

      • NBC and their minor league team are big on editing things to meet their agenda.

      • It’s about making “your side” superior and righteous by denigrating the stoopids over there.

        • That and most dangerously ‘shut the hell up or we’ll label you as abetting murder at least, a nascent racist killer at worst’.

  7. It was a tragedy to reasonable, objective people like you or me, but Bundy perceived that he had lost his property and cattle simply because he was a rent deadbeat, and he perceived that was tragic. And, there was Hannity to exploit the tragedy and pander to gun nuts and conspiracy theorists.

    I am surprised that the type of cattle you described got threw moderation. A good Friday afternoon chortle.

    • I might perceive that not being able to pay my student loans or find a job is tragic. I might react by breajpking the law and occupying Wall Street.

      The media following that occurrence and giving me air time for my gripe is not the same as using murder to spray paint Obama critics.

  8. CNN “Lady Host” this afternoon (sorry, but don’t watch enough to know her): “There is no evidence that Roof was part of any organized hate group, but…” And off she goes of course to discuss white hate groups for ten minutes with the Southern Poverty Law Center lady and how they are as dangerous as ISIS and yadda yadda yadda”. Just a reminder that when CCN is not doing documentaries, they are basically MSNBC-LITE.

  9. Today’s most popular links:
    5 do for MSNBC
    4 it’s Zuckertown
    3 truth strikes out
    2 Arthur Aidala
    And the most popular link in today’s links…
    1 So what exactly will Brian Williams be doing all day at MSNBC?

  10. On the SPECIAL REPORT panel tonight, it was unanimous: Tucker, Kirstin, and Charles all rooting for Brian Williams to do well on MSNBC.

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